In this conversation, Michael Trainer and Matthew Hussey discuss the importance of choosing a partner and how to call in the right person. They explore the barriers to finding love and the impact of the dopamine cycle on dating. They emphasize the need to focus on what truly matters in relationships and let go of old paradigms. They also discuss the importance of vulnerability and taking accountability in relationships.
The conversation includes insights on creating space for love and rewiring our brain for happiness in our love lives. In this conversation, Matthew Hussey discusses the power of rewiring your brain and taking a deep reset to appreciate the subtle beauty in life. He shares stories of individuals who took time away from dating and experienced profound clarity in recognizing their true partners. The conversation explores the balance between achievement and the deep reset, and the importance of choosing love based on happiness rather than ego.
Matthew emphasizes the need to raise standards for how you want to feel in relationships and to be authentic in dating. He also highlights the significance of observing how people make you feel and shifting standards to focus on deeper qualities. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the importance of integrity in relationships and the upcoming Find Your Person event.
Matthew's Love Life Book: https://matthewhussey.com/llbook-launch/
@matthewhussey on instagram
Partners:
https://leelaq.com
PEAK for 10% off your order
https://www.upgradedformulas.com
PEAK for 15% off your order
Takeaways
Chapters
00:00Introduction and Time Management
01:22The Importance of Choosing a Partner
03:26Barriers to Finding Love
04:53Focusing on the Right Things in Relationships
05:51The Impact of Dopamine Cycle on Dating
07:13Understanding What's Important in Love Lives
08:12Letting Go of Old Paradigms
09:08Acceptance and Growth in Relationships
10:02The Journey of Love and Acceptance
11:27Embracing Imperfections in Relationships
12:05Learning to Be Vulnerable
13:30Taking Accountability in Relationships
14:29Courage to Face Relationship Challenges
15:59Creating Space for Love
21:49Creating Your Own Dating Culture
23:01Reprogramming Our Approach to Dating
24:27Finding Peace and Kindness in Relationships
26:12Breaking the Cycle of Chaos in Dating
28:39Defining What's Important in Love Lives
30:08Creating Space for the Right Person
32:06Rewiring Our Brain for Happiness in Love
33:24Appreciating the Subtle in Relationships
33:37The Power of Rewiring Your Brain
34:23Taking a Deep Reset
35:46The Balance Between Achievement and Deep Reset
37:17The Feeling You Want to Cultivate
38:02Choosing Love Based on Ego
39:02Being Aware of How People Make You Feel
40:02Raising Standards for How You Want to Feel
41:27Choosing Love Based on Happiness
42:23Approaching Dating Authentically
43:13Attracting the Right Kind of Attention
44:12Shifting Standards to Deeper Qualities
45:43Observing How People Make You Feel
46:42Giving Up Attention to Get More
49:27The Pursuit of the Subtle
50:47Being a Stand for Positive Dialogue
51:45The Importance of Integrity in Relationships
52:41Acknowledging Matthew's Stand
53:18The Small Moments That Matter
57:13Raising Standards for Deeper Qualities
58:12Seeking Authenticity and Connection
01:00:25The Importance of Love and Choosing a Partner
01:01:07Finding Your Person Event
01:04:02Acknowledging Matthew's Presence
01:06:33The Power of Lifting the Room
01:07:07Closing Remarks
Michael Trainer (00:00.819)
Excellent. So yeah, I want to be first of all, I just want to thank you for taking a little time. I'm honored to have the opportunity to have a discussion. And I wanted to make sure I generally go just about an hour, sometimes a little more. Do you have a hard stop that we need to be mindful of?
Matthew Hussey (00:02.124)
Lovely.
Matthew Hussey (00:23.138)
One, I think as long as we don't go above an hour, I'm okay, let me just double check. Yeah, as long as, yeah, as long as we stick to an hour, we're good.
Michael Trainer (00:28.335)
Yeah, just double check because I want to be respectful of your time.
Michael Trainer (00:34.763)
Okay, so I'll plan to go till about 4 0 5 and I'll be very mindful of the clock.
Matthew Hussey (00:38.722)
Perfect. And can we turn Michael up just a touch as long as you don't get feedback, Jeremy? You're obviously listening for feedback if there is any turn Michael down, but it should be okay. All right, great, Michael, we'll set whenever you're ready. Can we bring Michael over just a little bit?
Michael Trainer (00:54.487)
All right, my friend. Take a deep breath and then I'll jump into it. You have any other technical things? Before.
Matthew Hussey (01:01.662)
Let's shift just slightly, Jeremy.
Yeah, perfect. All right.
Matthew Hussey (01:13.45)
Let's add that to the manual, Jeremy, like centering perfectly right before every.
Matthew Hussey (01:21.406)
Okay. Ready when you are.
Michael Trainer (01:22.967)
All right. Welcome to Peak Mind. I'm your host, Michael Treanor, and I'm here today with Matthew Hussey. Matthew, it's a pleasure to have you on the show.
Matthew Hussey (01:32.202)
It's lovely to be here, Michael. Thank you for having me.
Michael Trainer (01:36.131)
So I wanted to start off, I've had the pleasure of having you in my ears, uh, for quite some time in anticipation of our, of our conversation today. And there was this, this sort of notion that kept coming to me, which is. That perhaps the most consequential decision we make in our lives is who we choose to partner with. And I know for myself speaking vulnerably, that's something I'm
Uh, Setting significant intention on calling in. And I know for many listening that that's also something they're, uh, working to call in. I love that you're, you, you have, I think a unique approach to thinking about relationships and, you know, I wanted to start perhaps with the four levels of importance, but can you share a little bit about. Your view on how to think about calling in a partner.
because I think there's very different notions of what that is. I think a lot of people, for example, if only I'm, as a man, once I'm wealthy enough to be a provider, and I know you work a lot with women as well, we all have our sort of limiting beliefs around what it'll take before we can attract that person. But could you start by sharing a little bit about how you think about who we get to be rather than what we have to do in order to attract in?
Matthew Hussey (02:56.942)
question of all the factors that you think are the cause, or you get to believe that there's nothing that's true in the response to that thing? Yeah. Well, I think a lot gets in the way of us finding love that isn't necessarily conscious. That affects the way we show up, whether we're showing up with enough
Michael Trainer (03:04.379)
love.
Matthew Hussey (03:26.454)
vulnerability, whether we are showing up as a genuine, authentic version of ourselves, whether we are taking enough risks, whether we're actually being vulnerable enough to put ourselves out there where rejection could occur, whether we're setting boundaries.
in our love lives, you know, often our needs don't get met in dating or in the way that someone else is showing up or we find that there's something about the way they're treating us that is hurtful or doesn't feel good but when we're so focused on getting the result we worry more about getting someone than we do about making sure that what we're getting
is something that actually makes our life better. And it's why an awful lot of people end up in relationships where they're unhappy, because they've been so busy trying to secure someone and being preoccupied whether they can be attractive to someone and whether they can secure someone that they're not nearly focused enough on whether that person...
Michael Trainer (04:29.255)
Mm-hmm.
Matthew Hussey (04:53.298)
makes them happier, whether that person makes them feel good about themselves, whether that person brings them peace. So there's a and then of course there's, we're sometimes not aware of the forces that are driving us in our love life. You know, I think that we live in an age now where so many of us are, as we are in so much of our lives,
on this dopaminergenic cycle that, you know, we associate that typically with struggling to focus at work because we keep checking Instagram and, you know, finding it difficult to do deep work in our lives or be present with family at the dinner table, but we, it's less talked about just how much that dopamine cycle is affecting us in our dating lives. And
Michael Trainer (05:34.639)
Mm-hmm.
Matthew Hussey (05:51.682)
how much it's taking us away from the depth that's needed to build real connections. And instead putting us just on this constant roller coaster of, uh, you know, swiping and novelty and superficial interactions and chaos, the highs and lows of, you know, dating volatile people. And, you know, it all is, it's all producing these
chemical rushes and it's hard sometimes to wean ourselves off of that, especially if we've been doing it for a long time, a long-term relationship, it burns a different kind of fuel. And if we're, if we're, if we're in that heightened state all the time, and then someone comes along, there's a different kind of energy that could bring a different kind of peace and happiness into our lives.
we may find that they're not even really visible to us. They're not even really on our radar because they don't represent the kind of spikes in adrenaline and attraction and volatility that our body is used to and is programmed for. So maybe there's a lot of different answers in one, but I think it all starts with...
asking ourselves what's important to us at this stage of our lives. You know, what, because it, you may not have caught up to the fact that what's right for you now is quite different from what may have been right for you five years ago or 10 years ago. And sometimes we're still chasing this old idea of what we thought we wanted. And, you know, maybe a version of us years ago in our lives was caught up with the idea that if I could just get this kind of person, then I would feel good enough.
Michael Trainer (07:27.195)
Mmm.
Matthew Hussey (07:43.422)
And that would validate this version of me from high school that always wanted to get that kind of person. And maybe, maybe it was never necessary to get that kind of person. Maybe it's not even desirable to get that kind of person. Maybe what we actually need in our lives today has evolved along past that. We just haven't really acknowledged it. You know, you gave the example of a guy feeling like he's not financially in a position to attract the kind of person.
He wants, you know, that entire way of thinking might be an old paradigm that a guy has been operating on since his early twenties, when he didn't feel good enough. And he felt like he had to go out and make something of himself in the world and earn money and significance that way in order to be attractive. And, and, you know, maybe the 34 year old version of that guy gets to a point where he realizes, you know what?
actually one of the most special things about a relationship is someone who meets me where I'm at and is on the journey with me. You know, that's a, I know a lot of people who are at a stage in their lives where they made all the money in the world and they almost regret the fact that they didn't meet someone when they were on the way up because it feels like, God, how special would
Michael Trainer (08:45.38)
Hmm.
Matthew Hussey (09:08.782)
who I am today, but has understood who I've had to become over that time and how resilient I've had to be and how hard I've had to work. And, you know, it would have been really nice for someone to have come along during that time and been part of my life and my growth and my journey in that time. I think there's something very beautiful to that. And not to mention, there's something very special about being accepted.
in the phases where our life is a work in progress that might end up being. One of the, one of the greatest things about the love you find is that it came to you in a stage of your life where you deep down feared that there were parts of you that were unacceptable or unlovable. And yet here this person is loving you all the same. What, what more security could you ever feel than that?
Michael Trainer (10:02.415)
Beautifully said. Yeah, it's a friend of mine once said we're actually out for pizza over here in LA at a place called Juicesta and we're sitting down and I was about to bite into this slice and he said to me, you know it's not a coincidence that there are no single presidents and how that landed for me was You know regardless of what presidential is and I and I don't mean that necessarily as the you know
traditional definition, but whatever it is that is presidential for you in your life, in terms of who you want to step into being. Oftentimes, that is most poignantly realized when we have a counterpart that calls us into a level of beingness. And I think a fallacy that I've lived in is, well, once I get here, then I'll be ready, right? Like then she'll come. If I, if the sort of field of
kind of, uh, perhaps fallacy. And I think what you said there that that's so deeply resonant is how beautiful to actually have someone with you on the journey and, and to be with you even, uh, through the Piccadillo's or through the challenges and to love you, uh, for those sort of, you know, I don't know if you remember, do you ever watch goodwill hunting? There's that scene where
Matthew Hussey (11:20.398)
Thanks for watching.
Matthew Hussey (11:24.486)
Mm-hmm. Love that moving.
Michael Trainer (11:27.691)
where Robin Williams is sitting down with Matt Damon. And he actually riffed this. I don't know if you remember this scene, but he goes off script and he says, my wife used to fart in bed, and Matt Damon cracks up, yeah. And he's like, but that's the, and she of course had passed away. And he's like, but that's the stuff you miss, man. I got news for you. It's not about being perfect. It's actually those little picadillos that become the charm.
Matthew Hussey (11:41.807)
I remember that scene.
Matthew Hussey (11:55.746)
Mm-mm.
Michael Trainer (11:57.243)
And somehow that you evoke that in the context of this notion of being on this journey together and how beautiful it can be.
Matthew Hussey (12:05.566)
Yeah, and I had to learn that by the way. You know, I think I didn't realize earlier in my life how difficult I found it to be vulnerable. If you'd have asked me, you know, five years ago, are you vulnerable? I'd have been like, yeah, I'm vulnerable. And I don't think I realized the extent to which I wasn't very vulnerable, that it-
actually I was intensely afraid of showing certain parts of myself that I felt would make me unlovable, that I felt would make me unattractive. And so I think for a lot of my life, without even necessarily realizing it consciously, I constantly put forward this very heroic version of myself that, you know, I thought made me dazzling and I thought made me...
bold and strong and attractive. And I think it became a barrier to people really knowing me and it became a barrier to me ever really feeling true acceptance that, you know, the acceptance that I feel in my relationship now, I just got married last year. It's a different level of acceptance than I've ever felt before, but.
It wasn't easy. I, you know, in the beginning of the relationship, I can remember times when I would rather have an argument and be passive aggressive than actually speak what was really on my mind or what I was really feeling or afraid of because it felt like being passive aggressive, even if I was coming off like a bit of a dick, it was still better than.
me revealing this weakness. And, and the more I learned because you know, my wife is this empathy machine and she's so, she's so compassionate and accepting of me. The more I learned that I could speak those things that I felt were unspeakable about myself and that this person was still there at the end of it. The more I started to feel safe and
Michael Trainer (14:02.264)
Mm-hmm.
Matthew Hussey (14:29.482)
you know, what I've ended up with is a real relationship as opposed to, you know, this kind of, this theater's a strong word for it because it's not like I was inauthentic all the time, but just this somewhat two-dimensional experience of me never really allowing that person in a way that they deserved to be allowed in.
Michael Trainer (14:56.475)
Hmm.
Matthew Hussey (14:59.242)
You know, it's a disservice I did, I think, to so many of the relationships I've been in my life that I never really gave them a chance to see me on the level that I'm doing today.
Michael Trainer (15:12.131)
What did it take from you to, to be able to have the courage not to sabotage that relationship? In other words, I think so often we, we hit those uncomfortable places, right? The places that are maybe our old triggers and, or pattern from, you know, deep, deep in our childhood and we have our protection mechanisms, whether that be passive, being passive aggressive or sabotaging in other ways, so I can speak, speak for myself. I've done it many times.
What did it take from you to stretch into the new version of yourself such that when your now wife would push you in or call you forward into a deeper level of courage through her empathy that you were able to walk through that fire as opposed to run away.
Matthew Hussey (15:59.338)
Well, to give her an enormous amount of credit, I met with someone who didn't meet me at the frequency that I was coming in at, but instead showed an incredible amount of kindness and compassion in difficult conversations. And even when...
I was not being my best self, to put it lightly. You know, she would have this very elegant mix of...
you know, hey, I wanna understand where this is coming from for you because I feel like the last thing I wanna do is hurt you and I feel like something I've done has really hurt you and I'm so sorry that that's happened and I wanna understand it. But also a standard where she was like, but also you can't bring it to me like this. Like this isn't okay. Like I can't, this...
It's not fair for you to be like this in these moments and treat me like this. So that can't be the way that you bring these things up. And that, you know, it was just so clear to me that I was the person not handling the thing well. Like, you know what I mean? When someone, because when someone just joins you there and...
Michael Trainer (17:30.792)
Totally.
Matthew Hussey (17:36.15)
goes to battle with you or whatever, it's, you feel, it validates like, oh yeah, they are doing, you know, they are being difficult or they are being, but she just wasn't. So it was so, I'm self-aware enough to look at it and go, oh no, this is, I'm the one, like if there was a video of us two right now, I'm so clearly the one who's the problem in this moment.
Michael Trainer (17:55.375)
Ha ha!
Matthew Hussey (18:05.91)
And, and that kind of, I couldn't not see that. I couldn't not see that there's something going on with me that I need to figure out, or there's some, there's something triggering me right now that I need to understand. And that if I turn away this, if I, if I turn away this kind of love, or if I get too proud here and I push this away, then I'm...
sending a message to myself about the kind of human being that I'm willing to give up. It was a price I was not willing to pay. So my growth in those areas suddenly became more important to me.
Michael Trainer (18:56.967)
that is incredibly powerful that you had the awareness and also had the, the ability to take accountability for, you know, really looking at yourself. And it, it has me rewind a little bit because I imagined before, is it, is it Audrey? What's your wife's? Yeah, that's what I thought. So before, prior to meeting Audrey, I know as you've, you know, you've worked with probably now millions of women in empowering them, um, to.
Matthew Hussey (19:14.624)
Audrey, yeah.
Michael Trainer (19:26.683)
to find love in their life. I can envisage a world where you probably, you may have had a lot of options. There's, you know, because I think one of some of what you referenced earlier, right? We live almost in this world where there's this paradox of choice. It's, it's always this, whether I lived in New York, I live in LA, there's always this kind of revolving door of well, but what could maybe there's something better out there. Right. And I think many of us, unfortunately, get trapped in that revolving door. And some of us to a degree to where we kind of time out.
Uh, on our, on our, on our moments, whether that be biologically, if, if we yearn for children, um, or, you know, perhaps we, we sabotage something that was really, really good. And as you think back to, um, the beginnings of your relationship with Audrey and, or in the way that you think about helping other people to recognize and be able to hold the space for that kind of a consequential.
relationship, what's the, what's the orientation that people can have as they, as they go into dating. Um, because I feel like we're in this, like you said, it's a very interesting time, right, where this, this notion of traditional courtship is there, but we're kind of in a brave new world as it relates to dating with all of these tools and all these options. And we're also, I'll say speaking as a man in the sort of hypersensitivity of cancel culture.
You know, it's, it's sometimes hard to know to what degree to declare interest. Uh, and also to know when, for example, to, um, open oneself vulnerably, um, as you had shared, for example, and I'm, I'm guessing this is at a deeper deepening point in your relationship with Audrey, but how do you think about those beginning phases of, for lack of a better term, calling in the one and, and an orientation towards, um, sort of how we can hold the space.
within ourselves, because part of what I love what you talk about is it's not just the love life you're looking to attract, but it's that zest for life, that love of life that is the magnet that brings him or her forward. Can you share a little bit about, for those of us who have yet to find our equivalent or our partner, how you think about approaching dating in this day and age?
Matthew Hussey (21:49.346)
Well, I think that Mitch Album had a great line. He said, if you don't like the culture, you have to be brave enough to create your own.
Michael Trainer (22:00.996)
Mmm
Matthew Hussey (22:02.498)
And I think that a lot of dating culture does not serve people and it makes people very unhappy. And that's not just to say that, you know, it makes us unhappy because we get treated poorly a lot out there. It's also that we, we ourselves can get on the addictive cycle of dating constantly and the kind of novelty of that. And, you know, the
the hits of swiping and seeing multiple people at the same time. And it's, uh, it, it's buzzy and it can, it can feel very, very addictive. Uh, and some people feel that more than others. Um, some people are more on the receiving end of the poor treatment. Some people are more on the delivering end of poor, poor treatment. Um, but I think that we have to decide to step out of the
Michael Trainer (22:54.769)
Thank you.
Matthew Hussey (23:01.35)
out of the current of dating today and bring our own culture to it the way that we want to do it. You know I know that in my work life there were books that really, you know I sort of felt like I could never go back once I'd read those books. You know one of them was Deep Work by Cal Newport. Another one was...
Michael Trainer (23:02.735)
Hmm.
Michael Trainer (23:25.712)
Mm-hmm.
Matthew Hussey (23:30.082)
How to Calm Your Mind by Chris Bailey. Another one was 4,000 Weeks by Oliver Berkman. All those books I feel live in the same family of basically looking at the culture of work today and opportunity seeking and burnout and saying there is something broken about this. And...
We can either continue to operate within this paradigm that is broken, that is leading us all to anxiety and constant chronic tiredness and exhaustion and ultimate burnout, or we can say, I'm going to defy that rhythm. I'm going to rebel against that. And I'm going to find a rhythm that works for me. And I, part of this book that I've written is
Michael Trainer (24:22.384)
Hmm.
Matthew Hussey (24:27.682)
is a kind of secret desire to help people find a similar paradigm shift in their love lives. Where, you know, I got to a place where dating was broken for me. I, there was a time in my 20s where dating around and hooking up and doing all of that felt fun and it felt exciting and it felt, you know, it was
Michael Trainer (24:33.943)
Mm-hmm.
Matthew Hussey (24:56.054)
was everything, right? It was ego, it was validation, it was dopamine, it was, you know, and, and it took me a long time. I would cycle in and out of that because I would be in, you know, monogamous relationships. And then I would get out of a monogamous relationship. And then I would go into this dopamine cycle in dating. And then I'd get into another
Michael Trainer (24:59.576)
Yep.
Matthew Hussey (25:22.874)
monogamous relationship for another year, and then I'd come out and I'd go crazy again. And that was my pattern. And it was broken for me because it just, I was either in a relationship where I wasn't going all in.
Or I was, and that didn't feel good. And it, and it was unfair to the people that I was in relationships with not to just give all of myself and go all in. And then, you know, I'd be single and I'd be, it would be chaos. And I'd be a liability to both myself and to other people because I couldn't, I didn't know how to find, I didn't know how to find.
Michael Trainer (26:00.71)
Hahaha!
Matthew Hussey (26:12.418)
happiness in that area. You know, I knew how to create opportunity, but I didn't, finding peace for myself in that area, I didn't find it. And I got to a point where I realized like, oh, this is not, this is not working for me. It's certainly not working for anyone who comes into contact with me. And it's not working for me either. I'm not happy. In fact, I feel myself getting increasingly anxious with this addictive cycle.
that I'm on and I need to find something. This is not where it's gonna be at for me. Like this is not gonna work, it's not gonna end well. So I need something that I need to gravitate towards things in the same way that in my life in general, I'd realized, oh, this like scrolling Instagram endlessly or getting sucked into social media is not gonna work.
for me, this is, I need, even though it feels strange and uncomfortable, I need to try as best I can to live a more analog life, and I need to try as best I can to find a rhythm that calms my mind. I need to find love that brings me peace. And I, you know, there's a chapter in this book I call, How to Rewire Your Brain.
And I start that in these chapter, I give five different steps to rewiring our brain for happiness in our love life. And the first of those steps is to, is to first make change necessary, which is to say what's not worked for me. And for me, the way I was dating or approaching my love life had not worked for me. And then to say, okay, so what's my path going forward? What's important?
to me now, not what was important to me five years ago. What is important to me in this part of my life? And for me, it was peace, it was finding kindness and a genuine teammate, someone who saw me and accepted me and someone that I felt like I could actually build.
Matthew Hussey (28:39.59)
with, have like a genuine teammate that I could build with. And, and so when those things become most important to you, everything else is a distraction. Right? It's, it's like, it's like someone who's 35 and wants kids soon, you know, being honest with themselves about what they want, and being very clear and very intentional. Well, when you're doing that,
Michael Trainer (28:51.064)
Yeah.
Matthew Hussey (29:10.09)
If you know you want those things and you suddenly come across a 22 year old who you think is super attractive, I'm talking men or women, because I've seen it happen on both sides. It, you, if you're that person and you now come across a 22 year old who's living it up and partying and doing the thing and whatever, no matter how much of a connection the two of you have. You don't.
Michael Trainer (29:20.919)
Sure. Me too, yeah.
Matthew Hussey (29:39.026)
You think this is a distraction. You know, I, and I, I've said that to many women who they're, they're at that age and they find a young guy who's nowhere near wanting kids, nowhere near, and they're looking at a five year, seven year biological window. And when they do that, I have to reorient them and go in what way, apart from short-term comfort and excitement.
In what way does this serve the path that you want to be on? And, and if the answer is it doesn't serve the path I want to be on, then what am I doing here? This is not only a distraction. It's actually more dangerous than a distraction. It's taken up the space that needs to be reserved for the appropriate person, the right person to come into love needs space.
And so many of us have not created any space for love because we are either absorbed in a pseudo relationship with someone who only half wants us and comes in and out of our life at their discretion. Or someone who's completely wrong for us, just because our lives aren't compatible and we want different things. Or...
Michael Trainer (30:44.603)
Hmm.
Matthew Hussey (31:07.782)
where there's no space because we're dating five different people. And it isn't conducive to having the bandwidth or even the, for want of a better word, the hunger to go and actually form a real connection because we're constantly getting sugar rushes that take us away from it. So that...
You know, that I think is a, is a really, really big thing for people in making space for that person and defining the feeling that you're looking for now. And also Michael, understanding that there may be a bit of a reprogramming of our nervous system that has to happen for us to
recognize the value of that thing when it comes around. Because if we've been on a dopamine cycle in our dating life, or if we have been living our nervous system is wired for the chaos of a volatile person or a person who, you know, make is very inconsistent with us and makes us have to chase them all the time and makes us wonder if we've even got them or if, you know, when
When we're used to that, our nervous system is not programmed for healthy. And when healthy shows up, no matter how much we say we want it. I mean, to, to go back to the sugar analogy, you know, if we eat sugar all day, every day, and when we eat normal food, it's just not going to taste good. No matter how amazing that food is, it's not going to taste the same.
Michael Trainer (33:01.499)
Hmm.
Matthew Hussey (33:04.17)
And that doesn't mean it's bad food. It just means that our palate has been trained to like this thing over here. If you take a drug addict and on the day they quit, the day they go sober, you asked them to appreciate a sunset.
That's gonna be a tough thing to, it's not the right day for it, you know? You know, right now, their nervous system is programmed for these extreme highs. It's not programmed for the subtle appreciation of the transcendent. Yeah, it is, it's amazing. It's awe-inspiring. It's extraordinary. But if you're not in the right state to appreciate that,
Michael Trainer (33:26.194)
It's a tricky proposition.
Michael Trainer (33:30.771)
No, no, no.
Michael Trainer (33:37.603)
Yeah.
Michael Trainer (33:43.279)
Beauty.
Matthew Hussey (33:54.57)
then you can't connect to that. You're just still thinking about the high you could be getting that you got earlier this week. And sometimes we have to stop the old thing for a while for our nervous system to calm down and for us to start to appreciate the, the subtle but profound beauty of a different kind of energy in our life.
Michael Trainer (34:23.999)
so powerful, this notion and what it evoked for me as you talked about this rewiring your brain in the book, Love Life is a couple of men in my life and they're very public about this. One is Adrian Grenier, who was on Entourage, right? And he was living very much that life of Vinny Chase, right? The sort of very much Hollywood celebrated life. And I knew him in my New York days when I was also pursuing that kind of a lifestyle.
And we had a really deep connected conversation and he said, you know, I took time and I actually took like six months and no dating at all, you know? And I re and he literally, he was living, I think at the time now he's on a farm, but you know, in a, in a trailer in Austin and was tending the ground gardening as a deep reset to his nervous system, I'm using your words in my interpretation of his, uh, share, but
It was in that space that he recognized that what he had with Jordan, his now wife was so precious and he went and fought for it. But in my interpretation, had he still been in, you know, perhaps dating around or meeting those dope dopamine needs elsewhere, he wouldn't have created that clarity, that rewiring of the brain such that he would recognize that was his person and she was about to pass him by.
And I've thought about that because there's another, there's two friends in particular that took sort of a deep reset where they actually were not dating at all. They were celibate. And from that space, um, in both those instances, I'm not saying this would happen for everyone, uh, they called in the person of their life and now both are, are married with children. And as someone just speaking vulnerably who deeply yearns for that in life, but has as of yet been able to, or not able to attract it, um,
I sometimes wonder about that, right? Like what's the balance between, um, as I think achievement oriented men or achievement oriented women wanting to go off and put yourself out there. And of course these things take courage, including the vulnerability required. And then on the other side, perhaps the deep reset of rewiring your brain and going more into like, okay, I'm going to avoid the sugar analogy. I'm going to avoid the dopamine hits that can come from dating. Like good enough, very attractive, you know,
Michael Trainer (36:46.331)
perhaps wonderful people, but not my people, right? Like I know that that's not to your point, you know, and I'll just share one story and then I'd love to hear your thoughts. But I remember years ago being on the roof and a gentleman asked me, he was an older gentleman, he said, you know, what are you looking for in a partner? And of course I had as an achievement oriented New Yorker, I had a three page list, you know, I mean from intelligence, smoking hot, you know, all the things. And he said something that I'll never forget, Matthew,
in the most kind elderly way, he was like, you know, I don't know about all that, but when my wife walks in the room, she lights up the room and every night before we go to bed, we're laughing. And that was all he said. And I'll never forget it to this day because it spoke to what you spoke of earlier of that feeling, you know, that feeling that is invoked. And it kind of took me out of my head and all these ideas of what I thought.
Matthew Hussey (37:21.454)
Thanks for watching.
Matthew Hussey (37:39.307)
Mm.
Michael Trainer (37:46.087)
she should look like. And it evoked this notion of what's the feeling you want to cultivate and who is the person that will hold that feeling, that sort of that more that wants to live in the space between you, who's committed to that more?
Matthew Hussey (38:02.354)
And that's really, that's so beautiful. You put it perfectly. And I don't think we, especially actually, I think guys, we're not in tune enough a lot of the time with our feelings. And we do come from that sort of achievement-oriented mindset of trying to get someone without really asking, how does this person make me feel? And...
It's something, it's actually something my wife has helped me get better at. I mean, I remember I had a, a guy friend that I was in the early stages of friendship with and I would come away from dinner with this friend and I'd, I'd come back to my wife and I'd be like, I, it's something about it. I don't know if it, like, I would, I would basically talk in a way that made her
Every time I left this guy I felt a bit worse.
Michael Trainer (39:04.935)
Uh-huh. A black hole, an energetic black hole.
Matthew Hussey (39:06.746)
And yeah, and I couldn't work it out. And she got me to focus on like, you know, I would start talking about my interactions with this person and it started to become evident that there were these like subtle little ways that he would put me down in conversation, but they were very subtle. Like it was very...
It was very like just drop a seed here that would make you insecure. And another one there. And I, and I remember just, I'd come away unsettled. I'd come away less calm. And eventually I looked at that and I went on paper. This person is fun. They're cool. They're this, they're that. But this isn't a person that makes me feel good.
And I stopped seeing this person. I like literally just, I cut them out of my life because I just went, I don't feel good around this human being. And it was no, it wasn't even a judgment on him. I just thought, this person's not good for me. And most people can think of a relationship in their life where they were fighting desperately to hold on to someone who didn't make them feel good.
Michael Trainer (40:30.367)
Yeah. Many.
Matthew Hussey (40:31.882)
You know, and I was making them miserable. And yet you're telling yourself, if I lose this person, I'll die. And yet keeping them was making us miserable. So that's how out of tune we can be with what your guy said about, you know, my wife, we just f***ed up.
Michael Trainer (40:43.996)
Hahaha!
Matthew Hussey (40:59.054)
He's describing feeling great around this woman. We laugh together every night before bed and you know, she lights up a room. Like this is, this is how I feel around this person. I feel light and I'm sure he feels more of himself around that person. And so it goes back to how do I need to, if that's the, if I'm going to make that now, the destination for myself, instead of.
all of these other things. Cause I think that a real problem in so many of our love lives is that we are, without knowing it, trying, we're choosing love based on ego, not what's going to make us happy. So we have all these things on our list and they're all driven by this, who will look good on my arm and who's going to
Michael Trainer (41:42.151)
Mm.
Matthew Hussey (41:53.686)
who fits the part of who everyone expects me to be with? And are they the type that I always thought I would have? And will they impress my friends and family when I take them home? And like we were driven by these things more than we like to admit. And the things that tick those boxes are often at odds with the things that actually make us feel really good when we found them.
Um, but when we make, create that new destination of this is how I want to feel with somebody, we, we start to approach dating a bit differently because we now approach dating from a, from a place of
showing ourselves very authentically, so that we're able to actually see how that is received and whether the person on the other side of the table can understand us and connects with us and accepts us. That's when we really see what happens a lot is when we're being driven egoically, we then are
not so focused on being seen for who we are, we're more focused on how to impress somebody. And if you look at the reason a lot of people are really dissatisfied with the results they're getting in their love life is that they keep attracting the kind of attention that ultimately makes them unhappy because they keep, it's like whatever they feel is their strongest weapon.
Michael Trainer (43:21.252)
Yeah.
Matthew Hussey (43:43.254)
That's what they keep deploying over and over and over again. So you've got the person on Instagram who is just every picture, man or woman is just as sexy as possible. And that person's like, why doesn't anyone want more with me? Why don't they take me seriously? Or why don't they want a relationship with me? But everything they portray is just a shrine to their sexiness.
Michael Trainer (43:44.952)
Exactly.
Michael Trainer (44:10.819)
Mm-hmm.
Matthew Hussey (44:12.246)
You have other people that you can tell from the moment you meet them or the moment you see their profile, their weapon is their financial status. And they weaponize it at every point. You know, I've got guy, there was a guy I worked with who said to me, you know, I just, I want someone who really accepts me for me. And I feel like a lot of people are drawn to me because of what I've achieved in my life.
Michael Trainer (44:22.16)
Yeah.
Matthew Hussey (44:42.834)
And when I really dug into it, what I found out is that every first date he goes on, he takes women to five star restaurants and you know, I'm all for taking someone somewhere nice on a date, but why do you have to take someone to a restaurant that for many people is there like yearly anniversary restaurant?
Michael Trainer (44:54.349)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Trainer (45:12.279)
Mm-hmm.
Matthew Hussey (45:13.03)
Why are you taking someone there for a first date? And people don't like, you know, people will give you their reason. Oh, well, I just really, I'm a, I like the food. I'm a foodie. I really liked the food. And it's like, I, some of my favorite food in LA is a $20 amazing bowl of ramen. So you can't sell me on the fact that only expensive food is delicious food. Like don't, there's a reason you're taking people there is because.
Michael Trainer (45:31.995)
Totally, totally.
Matthew Hussey (45:43.27)
you've convinced yourself that that's what your value is. That your value is the money you've made. Your value is the body that you work two hours a day to achieve. Your value is your looks or your status or your social connections or whatever it is. You see Instagram accounts where every photo, the person whose account it is, is with another celebrity. I'll tell you.
It's not hard to know what they think their value is. Right? For them, their value is their social connections, it's their network. But it's like, then we get frustrated that the people we're attracting are attracted to that form of value and don't see us for who we really are. But in order to get the love we want, sometimes we have to be brave enough to give up the attention we know how to get.
Matthew Hussey (46:42.462)
And that's a brave thing to do because you might in the process of doing that, give up 90% of the attention you're used to by no longer deploying that weapon. But the 10% that gets through, the quality of it and how much that 10% actually recognizes who you are and what your real value is.
will be profoundly different. But in order to enjoy that 10%, that might just contain your person, the love of your life, you have to be willing to slow down to go faster. You have to be willing to get less to get more.
Michael Trainer (47:34.735)
I cannot tell you how resonant what you just shared is. Um, I, I remember not long ago, I actually did a whole reset on life and I, and I, and I called it sort of in my internally disarmament. It was like, I'm taking off the gun. Like I got rid of my nice guy. I got rid of all the things that I thought in that field of dreams, reality would call her in or call him the one. And now, um, I said, vulnerable. I never shared this, but I actually have an altar. And.
I have a medicine bag that I actually keep on the altar. That's a symbol of my person. And I put flowers on the altar and it's my, um, it's my devotion to the more that wants to live. You know, I think a lot in terms of music. And I realized I was like, you know, there's a, I think of things as what's the, what's the music that wants to live and.
You know, when we think about people, I think one of the things that's helped me is certain people just aren't my kind of music, right? Like I know certain people love Metallica and I totally respect that. Metallica is not my music, you know? And, uh, I used to both in how I think represented myself and also the way that I thought about things. It was very much that like, how can I play to my strengths? I've got my, my proverbial guns, let's go. And like, I'm, I'm going to feed off that. And, and when I did the disarmament.
I did, I feel like I did remove a lot of the 90% of the attractive seductive distractions. Um, but there's something beautiful in that I also eliminated the noise, you know, like when you're in a noisy bar of all the songs that weren't for me, you know, it's like they suddenly were not there and in the, and in, and in the, in the fields.
It's like when I go hiking, it's like I can hear the birds kind of calling to each other. And if you pause long enough, you start to hear the symphony of sounds that are living off of those bird songs. And forgive me with the metaphor, but I, I feel like now I'm in the deep listening for the song. And I'm also in the stand that is my own song such that, you know, I feel like I can be an offering to, to that.
Michael Trainer (49:54.479)
divine partner, you know, whatever, whatever that looks like in life. And I really love Matthew, your stand. And I just want to just acknowledge you because you've helped so many people with something that is in many ways intangible, right? The number of relationships that generate likely the children. Uh, I had a woman stopped me ironically on a hike and I had invited her to a gathering and she took, and she had two kids in her backseat.
Matthew Hussey (49:56.244)
Hmm.
Michael Trainer (50:22.659)
And she was like, you know, I met my husband at your dinner and I was so touched by it because I saw literally her children in the back seat and I can only think of the number of partnerships and future generations that you've inspired through your work. And I just, I think it's, I want to say one other thing and then I actually want to, I know we're
Matthew Hussey (50:27.999)
Wow.
Michael Trainer (50:47.799)
I'm mindful of time. We don't have that much left, but I want to talk a bit more about love life, the book, and I know you have an event coming up, but just as an acknowledgement, you know, they were both part of a, of a group chat and without sharing any details, you know, the chat got to, and I think this happens in society quite a lot. You know, we're, we're in this kind of cancel culture moment. Um, and someone was speaking, one could consider it ill of someone and.
You showed up in the chat and most eloquently stated that, you know, I don't feel comfortable with this kind of conversation because that person's not here to defend themselves. And I feel like we should be a stand for positive constructive dialogue. And I just want to acknowledge you for that publicly, because that kind of stand is, I think, the kind of people we want to attract into our life, right? Who are the people that truly are a stand for us when no one's watching, right?
The person you stood up for has no idea you stood up for them. But that is so telling to me of the kind of person you are, but also the kind of relationships I think any of us listening would want to attract in our life, right? Like, that notion of integrity is how we show up when no one's watching. But the kind of relationships we want are the people that have our back when no one will know, you know? And I just wanted to acknowledge you for that. It just came to me and I was like, you know,
Matthew Hussey (51:46.207)
Hmm.
Matthew Hussey (52:06.594)
Hmm.
Michael Trainer (52:13.535)
It struck me in the moment of like, man, that's the kind of friend I would want. And also that's the kind of partner I would want, you know, like if I think about the qualities of a partnership, right? Like not, not that it's all hunky dory, you know, like fairy tale all the time, Snow White, but in the moments where it's hard, who's going to have your back. You know, and, um, you had my, you had someone's back in such a beautiful way that I just wanted to.
Matthew Hussey (52:36.095)
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Michael Trainer (52:41.995)
acknowledge you because you know, you show up, your words match your actions.
Matthew Hussey (52:49.218)
Well, Michael, that makes me feel very seen. And I really, really appreciate you saying that. I actually had no idea that you had seen that, or, you know, that's our first time, you know, talking about that. So I had no idea, and it means a lot for me, to me for you to say that, thank you. And I really believe that. I believe that, you know, those...
those subtle moments in our relationships, you know, it's kind of what we're saying, right? It's the, they're the small moments, but they're the ones that is the deeper stuff that I think really, really matters. And I think, you know, we, it's very natural.
in our love lives to have these really high standards about the shiny things. And I often come across people who say to me, you know, Matthew, I'm just super picky. I'm really, my standard, I keep being told my standards are too high. And what's interesting to me is how often people who say their standards are too high have almost no standards for
Michael Trainer (53:50.711)
Mm-hmm.
Matthew Hussey (54:14.35)
the deeper things that really make a great relationship. They have this incredibly high standard for the way someone dresses or the symmetry in their face. And then you ask them about someone that they've been investing the last six months of their life with on and off.
Michael Trainer (54:16.551)
Totally.
Yeah.
Michael Trainer (54:26.896)
Mm-hmm.
Matthew Hussey (54:43.282)
And you realize that this person has been treating them like garbage and has been, you know, never really showing them any signs that they're committed, that this person is just messing them around and that actually this person has been incredibly, incredibly unkind to them. And so you, you know, I always want to say to those people, why is it your standard is really high for charisma and there's no standard for kindness.
Michael Trainer (55:12.457)
Hahaha!
Matthew Hussey (55:14.21)
I don't think those are high standards. You know, so it's about raising our standards in the areas where those are actually gonna affect our lives the most. A guy I knew, I wrote about him in the book briefly, but he always went for dancers. You know, that was his thing. Love dancers. And...
Michael Trainer (55:16.231)
No, so true though, so true.
Michael Trainer (55:30.042)
Mm.
Matthew Hussey (55:41.922)
Then I asked him, because I met him at a different stage of his life. I said to him, your wife, is she a, is she a great dancer then? And he said, Oh my God, least coordinated person I've ever met.
And I laughed and I said, well, does that bother you? He said, I said, because this wasn't a small thing for him. He like really loved dancers and it was like a pattern in his life constantly. He said, Matt, how many days a year do you think I spend dancing?
Michael Trainer (56:13.692)
Hahaha, wow.
Matthew Hussey (56:15.466)
He said, I rarely dance. I've got a wife and two kids. Like this is not a big part of my life. He said, but every day of the year, my wife is the most amazing human being I've ever met. She is the most incredible mother. She is my best friend. Those things affect my life every single day. And.
That's an example of someone whose standards, whose high standards have shifted to something else than what he used to have really high standards about. And that's, you know, none of this is designed to be prescriptive for anybody. I think it's, it's for all of us to, to look at, to observe what are the times in my life where I feel good.
What are the times in my life? Who am I around when I feel better about myself or when I feel more of myself? It's no different to observing that. Oh, I felt, I feel really good after just spending an hour of really connected conversation with a friend. And I know it's every time I get off Instagram, I feel worse. It like that's, that's a good observation to make because if you, if you then follow that observation to its natural conclusion,
Michael Trainer (57:34.91)
Yeah.
Matthew Hussey (57:43.134)
It says, oh, spend more time in real relationships or connection with people and spend less time doing this frivolous thing that is highly addictive, but always leaves me feeling worse. And I think we can apply the same lens to our relationships. What are the deeper qualities that ultimately I've come to value and the more subtle qualities, like the ones we were just talking about that I've come to value at this stage in my life.
let me seek more of that. And that's been as true for my friendships as it has for my love life or any other part of my life is these days. I just wanna be around people that I feel connected to, that I can be myself around, that share my values.
I just want to be around people where authenticity is, you know, prized. And I think when that's what you want, you shun a lot of shiny things that, you know, only a few years ago would have felt like the great trophies of your life. They just no longer feel very important.
Michael Trainer (59:07.403)
You, um, I think the subtlety of what you've described, you know, a friend of mine talks about the pursuit of the subtle and, uh, there's a miles Davis quote I love that he says that music is the space that lives between the notes. And I think a lot in terms of music, but
Matthew Hussey (59:24.118)
Hmm.
Michael Trainer (59:29.391)
I've recently been really appreciating silence, sort of silence within, but also in the pauses in my relationship, who am I comfortable being with in silence and how do I feel in those spaces between the notes? And I think that you have written. A beautiful song that can help call people forward to both, I think a better
I want to see a better version of themselves, perhaps a more resonant note within themselves. And I think from that, from that note, a beautiful song that, that wants to live in the heart of another. And I just want to honor you, Matthew, cause I think your work is so important. I don't think in my, in my estimation, there's anything more valuable in this life than love and probably no greater decision than who you choose to do this dance called life with.
And a lot of us, including myself, have had a lot of questions about it. And you've written, I think, and I love that you wrote the book in different phases of your life, right? Like parts that are written when you were single, you know, probably endowed about whether Audrey was out there, you know, parts of it when you're on your honeymoon, you know, I think that's so beautiful that, that it's lit, that the book has also crossed over the bridge of those phases of your life. Uh, I
I highly recommend to anyone listening that they go and get the book. Where can people find you? And I know you're also doing, I think on May 4th, if I'm not mistaken, you're also going to do an event for those who jump on board. Can you share a little bit more about that?
Matthew Hussey (01:01:07.258)
Yeah. So, um, for, for anyone who wants to grab a copy of the book, I don't know if people will see this on video or not, but I'm holding it up. It's called love life, uh, how to raise your standards, find your person and live happily no matter what, and, um, you can get a copy at lovelifebook.com. I mean, you could get a copy anywhere you like, anywhere that sells books. You'll, you'll find a copy Amazon bonds and noble anywhere. But if you, the cool thing is if you go to lovelifebook.com
Even if you don't buy it through that site, um, come back there with your receipt number from wherever you did buy it, and you can use your receipt number on that website to, uh, get a ticket to an event that I'm doing, uh, on May the fourth called find your person. And the whole concept of this is that we're going to take all of the learnings from the book and we're going to.
create some practical application of them in taking you forward in your year this year for finding your person, if that's something that you really want for your life. And this book is designed to be a co-pilot for anyone who wants to find love, but it's also designed to meet people where they're at, wherever they are, and help them to find their happiness within that, because there'll be people who
You know, there's chapter in this book on overcoming heartbreak. There's a chapter in this book on how to leave a toxic relationship. There's whole sections of this book written for people who are struggling with the feelings of loneliness and anxiety that can come with being single and not finding someone. It really is designed to be not just a co-pilot in helping you find love, but also a friend in all of those moments.
where you're in a really difficult spot emotionally. You know, it's about doing love better, both when we have it and when we don't have it. So, yeah, if people go to lovelifebook.com, they can grab a copy and grab a ticket to this event. It's a free ticket, as long as you grab a copy of the book, you get a ticket and this event I'm doing exclusively for book buyers. So it's gonna be a really fun virtual event for people that are gonna be joining from.
Matthew Hussey (01:03:31.974)
all over the world. And I want to just acknowledge you, Michael, because you're someone, I've done a lot of interviews about this book and I feel really comfortable in your presence. And you and I haven't had the privilege of spending time together yet, but I felt more of my best self in this.
interview with you, which isn't always the case. You know, I, sometimes I feel like I come out of an interview and I feel like that wasn't my favorite version of me. And it often relates to the dynamic that I felt with someone else. And this is one of those where I'm going to be leaving and telling my wife who's next door, that was the best version of me in that interview. And I credit you with that. So thank you for the energy that you brought me.
Michael Trainer (01:04:02.727)
Thank you.
Michael Trainer (01:04:28.879)
Man, I received that. I'm truly, truly honored by your words. And it's wild because before this conversation, I've got a whole list of questions, of course, which I didn't get to. But even in the beginning, it felt in a different way. It's like when you're excited about a date you go on and you've got all these questions or ideas about what you think would. And what I loved about what you evoked was just dropping the notion that it has to look a certain.
way or be perfect or be the shiny thing. Um, because of course it's the conversation is important to me as well. And what I loved is when I dropped the notion of having to achieve all the things I wanted to cross over, I felt like we really dropped into a heartfelt moment that I can say profoundly spoke to me. Um, and I felt also.
the eloquence of someone who is, you know, I've, I've interviewed a lot of folks on the show, but someone who's embodied and that's of the greatest compliments I can give because I think there's a lot of people who, um,
I'll share this in a way that's most eloquent for me, but I have a deep reverence for the indigenous and I've had the honor to sit with some, some really beautiful indigenous elders. And what I love about them is you can tell the difference between someone who's singing a song because they want you to see them sing beautifully and someone who's singing a song because they want to lift the room.
And there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a distinct, there's a big distinction. And the two is ex the second of that, the latter, you know, the, the people who lift the room, it's exponential, you know, and I've, I've met some, you know, there's a Dean amen named Jerry. I'll tell you the story next time I see you, but he was like, he's like, if you sat next to Aretha Franklin on the bus, but you didn't know it was Aretha Franklin, you'd have no idea until she sang.
Matthew Hussey (01:06:05.079)
Hmm. Wow.
Michael Trainer (01:06:33.479)
And I'm always in the listening for people whose songs are deeply resonant and they lift the room. And yours lifts the room, my friend. So thank you so much.
Matthew Hussey (01:06:39.128)
Mm.
Matthew Hussey (01:06:44.846)
Thank you, Michael. For what it's worth, you can use your music metaphors all day long with me. Because I love it. Every single one of them that you spoke today really resonated with me deeply. So I really appreciate it. And I look forward to being able to hang out properly, brother. I look forward to meeting you in person and getting some time together.
Michael Trainer (01:06:52.221)
Hahaha!
Michael Trainer (01:07:07.267)
Make feelings mutual. Let's do it. And guys, go grab Love Life. Join me at the event May 4th. I'll be getting multiple copies. I recommend you do the same because the greatest gifts are where we bring people closer to the love that wants to live in and through them. So thank you, Matthew.
Matthew Hussey (01:07:27.03)
Alright man, take care.